What it cost me to own a $500 car part 3

"StudyStudyStudy" (jesterjin) 04/16/2015 at 15:42 • Filed to: 240z, project car

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The story continues.

Rust and body damage. I knew there was going to be some rust. On one of my creepy drive by episodes it was dumping rain and to my chagrin, when I approached there was a bit of water seeping into the car. Apparently the heater core had also leaked quite a bit over the years leaving a trail of rust and at some point the car had taken a blow on the right side as evident by the buckled interior. Someone had spent some time on the exterior as the outside was straight, but they had not extended the same courtesy to the inside.

Some additional chipping brought forth an aluminum foil thickness floor, it just gave way and crumpled into dust and tore.

The engine bay was not happy either with rust extending from the notorious battery tray area (it had no capture tray so it was known to leak acid that would eat away at the metal) all the way down the engine bay rail and onto the tension rod mount.

Suddenly it felt like my world was falling apart. I sat down on a cinder block with my head in my hands. This car would not survive the way it is. Any dream of doing a quick fix up was gone, the crumbling metal would have to be addressed. I talked with a few people and one Z guy had a quote from a shop of $2000 just to do his floors! My budget for a future engine swap, fancy wheels, paint, even all my savings applied would not be enough to get a shop to fix this. I had already spent more then the price of the car on parts, and this repair would drown out the price of the car in comparison if done at a shop. Thoughts began to race, “cut my losses? send it to the junkyard? part it out? try to sell it as a project?” It was painfully evident that I had been hoping for a diamond in the rough, my budget clearly indicated that.

Over an agonizing week or two a decision was made. I will save this, I will repair it. I’ll leave out the fancy parts and stick to getting this car back on the road. If worse comes to worse it will be an experience, if best comes to best I’ll get to drive it.

So I began to look for a welder. I had become familiar with harbor freight since I bought the car and decided to take a look at one of their welders. The 90 amp unit caught my eye, at 100$ it seemed to good to be true. And...it was! It didn’t work on what I had planned which any experienced welder could have told me, so I returned it and upped my budget and reverted back to good old craigstlist. This time it finally failed to deliver. I called about a couple welders and even drove around to look at a few only to find that they weren’t as advertised, they were missing the Mig bottle attachment, or it was flux unit. These welder’s weren’t cheap either. I met with a friend who had started to build his own car and while shooting the breeze, I told him how much of a pain it was to find a welder. He said he could relate that his search was arduous as well (see how well I avoided long and hard, well guess not). The next day I got a phone call, he called and said we was planning on upgrading to a 220 unit and said that my need was a good enough push for him to do so and I could buy his old unit. So I shelled out the money and brought my new welder home. A hobart handler 140 (might be a 130, memory is fuzzy).

I promptly got to work, and promptly lit my pants on fire. I then bought a fire extinguisher and promptly got back to work.

Quite a few things I had been told about the car was becoming debunked.

Floors were not solid

There was an abundance of bondo

It had been in an accident at some point

It would not be a quick fix

Things I learned:

Once again craigslist can be your friend, but your real friends can be better ones.

I then learned that sometimes you just have to determine all these things yourself, you can’t really take anyone’s word for it. You have to remember the seller is trying to sell you a car, they have their motives.

Your pants literally can catch on fire if you aren’t careful, even if you aren’t a liar.

450 - Hobart welder, tank of gas, welding cart

20 - fire extinguisher

Subtotal: 470

Total spent: 1620

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Herr Quattro - Has a 4-Motion > StudyStudyStudy 04/16/2015 at 15:53

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...but what is it...

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > StudyStudyStudy 04/16/2015 at 15:55

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The most recent time I set myself on fire was with a 4" grinder, not a welder. Still, the last set of shoes I had to throw away had a hole burned through the top of them from welding...

Tekamul > StudyStudyStudy 04/16/2015 at 15:58

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It looks like you've resurrected Project Car Hell!

Good luck, looks like a long haul. As this looks like a source of many valuable posts, I'd add links to the previous parts.

StudyStudyStudy > Tekamul 04/16/2015 at 16:04

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Yea it really felt like it at times, hopefully this will have a happy ending, still in progress though :).

Will do, I'm still learning the UI. I just learned that the time is eastern, so I submitted the last one 3 hours old.

StudyStudyStudy > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/16/2015 at 16:06

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Oh goodness, I have some through and through holes in my sweater. The crazy part is there usually is the holes line of with some of my fleshy bits. Some slag in my welding mask also indicate how bad things can be.

StudyStudyStudy > Herr Quattro - Has a 4-Motion 04/16/2015 at 16:06

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The car? It is mentioned in part 1. It is a datsun 240z from 1971.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > StudyStudyStudy 04/16/2015 at 16:09

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My current project *also* has rusted-away floorboards and some door post damage on the right-hand side, but I've had the luxury of doing a lot of MIG welding on rusty steel before now...

StudyStudyStudy > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/16/2015 at 16:11

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I definitely learned on this car. Welding on new steel now gives me a fizzing sensation. Welding on rusty steel was not a fun time as will be visited on the next installment :).

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > StudyStudyStudy 04/16/2015 at 16:16

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Observe. I've not got new floorboards in, but it's all fresh steel where they'll attach.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > StudyStudyStudy 04/16/2015 at 16:19

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Although you seem to have experienced a few disappointments so far, I appreciate you sharing. I've been interested in learning how to weld, so I can appreciate the challenge of wanting to find a decent welder at a decent price. That, and I'd love to have a project vehicle to work on.

Good call on the fire extinguisher. The best $20 item you'll hope you never have to use.

StudyStudyStudy > BaconSandwich is tasty. 04/16/2015 at 16:31

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I figured having made the mistakes I made, it might be useful for someone down the road.

I highly recommend learning how to weld, it is surprising the amount of places welding is useful.

All it takes is an hour or two with a competent teacher to get the basics and the feel. The rest will be down to learning the machine, how to read the chart, and refining the technique. I've always been down to teach people if they ask. Usually doesn't take much gas or wire, and it is pretty easy to find a couple of scrap pieces to practice joining. Just need to find a like minded individual in your area. As long as they don't have a lot of workload and you don't plan on starting a business and pushing them out if they are professionals, most people I met love to give tips and tricks. I've taught 2 people so far and I enjoyed every minute of it.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > StudyStudyStudy 04/16/2015 at 16:43

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Well if you're gonna restore a car, I think a 1971 240Z is an excellent choice since it's a classic and I believe they're appreciating in value.

I suggest you try to restore it as close to stock as you can.

And least with you doing the stuff yourself, you can take the time to do it right at a much lower cost.

It reminds me of when I sold my old Honda Civic Wagovan... for $50. It was a good car and I didn't want to see it scrapped. It needed some serious bodywork to be roadworthy and I wanted it to go to someone who would do the bodywork needed to keep it on the road rather than just scrapping or parting it out. I told the girl who bought it that bodywork isn't too expensive to do if you do it yourself. But if you pay someone else to do it, it is expensive as hell.

She didn't listen to me, took the car to a mechanic she knew and got an insanely high quote for several hours of bodywork it would need. She called me and I repeated what I told her... that Honda will only get on the road again for a reasonable price IF she is willing to do the bodywork herself. And went on to explain that anyone can learn how to do bodywork... it just takes time... lots of time. But even with the best bodywork expert, it's still very time consuming. And with $100+/hr labour rates, for a cheap car, you either do the work yourself OR get a car without rust.

But instead I saw that she turned around and put the car up for sale for $75.

I hope she sold it to someone who fixed it up. But I suspect that by now, the car has been scrapped since these days, they'll give you at least $200 in scrap value for just about any car.

StudyStudyStudy > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 04/16/2015 at 16:50

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It really is a shame how some people are so against taking care of their car. Happy to watch it rust away rather then spend an afternoon on it.

I do love the look of the 240z. That surfline in the back is just magnificent.

Unfortunately the PO made some decisions that would prevent it from coming all the way back to stock. Combined with exorbitant prices that some the parts required for a stock build command (300+ for center ash tray/fuse cover, 300+ for bumpers) I ended up leaning against stock after a while. It can still be returned mostly to stockish levels if someone had the money to throw at it, but at my base starting price I wasn't too concerned.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > StudyStudyStudy 04/16/2015 at 17:12

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I think you can safely take a pass on a $300 ash tray or $300 bumpers for now... though keep your eyes open for them if they come available for a good price.

I'm just saying don't do anything that would prevent it from being returned to stockish levels if the necessary parts become available. Taking that approach may result in you possibly making money on this car one day.

Herr Quattro - Has a 4-Motion > StudyStudyStudy 04/16/2015 at 17:13

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that's awesome... I figured it was Z, since you said in the post somewhere, but wasn't sure what type of Z.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > StudyStudyStudy 04/16/2015 at 18:05

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I've had two lessons: one from my older brother when I was much younger. I don't think I learned much then. The second lesson I had from my uncle who is a welder. We went over MIG, stick, and a little TIG. It just seems like it'd take a bit of practice to get quite good at it - especially TIG.

Ideally I'd like to learn how to MIG weld aluminum, but a good number of people out there seem to think it is quite tricky. To me, TIG seems much trickier.

StudyStudyStudy > BaconSandwich is tasty. 04/16/2015 at 18:40

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Mig welding aluminum is pretty tricky in that you usually learn to mig steel first. Once you learn to mig steel the feeling of welding aluminum is quite different. It sparks differently and sounds different and burns different, a lot of mig (at least for me) is done with hearing after the settings. If I move to fast it doesn't sound right, if I stay too long it will burn through with the limited aluminum experience I had it is a complete different set of things you have to look for with aluminum.

With Tig the same technique can be used since you are just filling the weld.

I would say go bug your uncle for some more lessons, incentives with some food and drink. One of the things that kill projects is having to find someone to do a task or learn the skill. If you already have it under your belt your future project will go much smoother.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > StudyStudyStudy 04/16/2015 at 22:28

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I think that definitely sounds like a good idea. I'll have to give him a ring in a week or two when I'm a bit less busy.

I've been contemplating exactly what kind of automotive project I'd like to take on. So far the options I'm liking most is either building a Locost or converting my grandpa's 1953 grain truck into a custom camper. Both would definitely be long-term projects, but the end result would be pretty cool.